Defender..should I do it??

Hi,
as you know we have our Mitsubishi Delica ready for long distance travel and it can handle offroad driving as well. I am aware that it is not 4x4 for hard offroad and I am thinking to buy second car which we will use for more adventures trips.
I would love to have Defender 110 Hard Top/200 or 300Tdi/.
Many people say, that I should buy Toyota 78 or 80, but I just love Defendr and I think that Defender is more practical for our needs/ no windows, easy to replace parts,.../
My question is, if I can make Defender reliable? My idea is to rebuild one, so I can fit new, stronger parts and have a car which will be custom made for us.
I will have a lot of questions later if you think, that is possible to have reliable Land Rover.
Thanks
Kamil

delica wrote:

Hi,
as you know we have our Mitsubishi Delica ready for long distance travel and it can handle offroad driving as well. I am aware that it is not 4x4 for hard offroad and I am thinking to buy second car which we will use for more adventures trips.
I would love to have Defender 110 Hard Top/200 or 300Tdi/.
Many people say, that I should buy Toyota 78 or 80, but I just love Defendr and I think that Defender is more practical for our needs/ no windows, easy to replace parts,.../
My question is, if I can make Defender reliable? My idea is to rebuild one, so I can fit new, stronger parts and have a car which will be custom made for us.
I will have a lot of questions later if you think, that is possible to have reliable Land Rover.
Thanks
Kamil

If you can find a well serviced Defender then it should be plenty reliable.
You will save money if you buy a Defender that has already had the repairs or modifications done rebuilding cab be an expensive process.
Defenders cost alot as it is and you don't get alot for that money, prices at the moment have raised in the news that the replacement engine for the defender is a 2.2 300tdi and td5 prices have risen, and winter is coming.
Ive owned a 90, 110 defender and a 78 series troop carrier Landcruiser. There is not alot between them, either in on road performance, comfort or Off road ability.

I have in the past (3 months ago) I suffered with the "Grass is greener on the other side" syndrome.
I bought a Landcruiser 78 series 3.0 auto with the intention of it replacing the Terracan.
I Took it off road, the 78 series went places off road on road tyres that my Terracan barely does on All Terrains. But after driving it to Wales and back I wanted my Terracan. I misses the comfort, the fuel economy, the air-conditioning, the comfy seats, electric windows and central door locking even the cup holders and centre arm rest.....
Its easy to replace something and then regret the change.

I secretly admire the out of the box off road ability of a Land Rover but hate the serious unreliable problems due to poor servicing and cheap parts. If you want a Defender, you get one.
TD5's are more economical and are cheaper than the 300 tdi variant.

Good ones are out there, just look for good servicing and shop around. Auctions are the best place. With Land Rovers you can literally save £1500-£3000 instead of buying privately.

IMO keep the Delcia. Better the devil you know.


Jason

You will never make a Defender reliable, and the cost of rebuilding it is just an additional cost which could be money better spent.
Toyota's come with inherent reliability, and its this which makes them a popular choice around the world.

Basically, you pays your money and takes your choice.

I will keep Delica for our travelling, but I do not want to damage her by driving in Siberia and other parts of Russia and Central Asia, where they do not have roads and you need min 35" tires.

Our trip through Russia and Cantral Asia to OZ will be the easy one good for Delica, but I would like to explore Russia more so I need hardcore offroad.
Toyota is a good choice, but everything is so expensive compare to Defender and seems to me, that Defender is much easier to fix on the route. I was thinking rebuild one together with my friend, so I will not have to pay much for labour.

Hard decision to make.

Here is nice one for sale in Czech, £7000,...but I would like to heve RHD..more space for driver than LHD
http://landroverforum.klape.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15288

delica wrote:

I will keep Delica for our travelling, but I do not want to damage her by driving in Siberia and other parts of Russia and Central Asia, where they do not have roads and you need min 35" tires.

Our trip through Russia and Cantral Asia to OZ will be the easy one good for Delica, but I would like to explore Russia more so I need hardcore offroad.
Toyota is a good choice, but everything is so expensive compare to Defender and seems to me, that Defender is much easier to fix on the route. I was thinking rebuild one together with my friend, so I will not have to pay much for labour.

Hard decision to make.

Here is nice one for sale in Czech, £7000,...but I would like to heve RHD..more space for driver than LHD
http://landroverforum.klape.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15288

You can definably get more a Land Rover for your money than that for £7000!

For £7000 GBP you should be looking at 110 or 130, 2005 td5, 60,000 miles or less. If the time comes when you look to buy let me know.

Once a month I usually go to auction with my dad for his company to buy commercial 4x4's and vans. And there are Lots of LR Defender 110's + 130's. Most don't sell and I can take pics and spec's of the "good" ones and email them to you. If you then want to look to buy any of them you can possibly go through my dads trade account if out of the company or pay on cash at the auction if in the UK.

Here is the auction company if anyone is interested: http://www.manheim.co.uk/

Jason

And I do agree with not wanting to trash your Delcia.

I am unfamiliar with any route you might take, but can you take another, less challenging route? That way you could save alot of money and also enjoy the trip in a more comfortable vehicle?

Just a thought.

Jas

Terracan Jas wrote:

And I do agree with not wanting to trash your Delcia.

I am unfamiliar with any route you might take, but can you take another, less challenging route? That way you could save alot of money and also enjoy the trip in a more comfortable vehicle?

Just a thought.

Jas

Thanks for offer, it would be great . When I make decision I will let you know.

We will take easy route with our Delica...Black Sea area-Volgograd-alongside river Volga to Kazan - Perm- Ural Mountains-Ekaterinburg- Zlatoust -Kazakhstan- Kyrgyzstan -Tajikista- Kazakhstan -Novosibirsk- Altai Mountains - Lake Baikal- Vladivostock..South Korea -Japan - OZ

BUT I am tempted to go with some Russian to Kamchatka and other places and also explore Mongolia/ not parts where all the tourists go/.....

Thanks again
Kamil

Terracan Jas wrote:

TD5's are more economical ...... than the 300 tdi variant.

Jason

On the whole I agree with most of what you've said Jas, but I've yet to find anyone else who would agree with the above statement - I'm currently in the low mid 30's mpg with my 300 tdi 90 (which is still on it's original engine and gearbox at 273,000 miles) which is running mud terrains as well whereas I don't know anyone with a TD5 defender that will do 30mpg with any sort of regularity ,most get 25-27.

From my experience of defenders so far, most of the reliability issues I've encountered have been from poor quality replacement parts, poor maintenance, bodgy workmanship, poor driving ability (causing premature wear etc), rather than specifically bad design.

These types of reliabilty issues can be said of any make of vehicle surely.

A defender might not be as comfortable a place to sit as a lot of other vehicles, but for off the shelf ability and easiness to work on with minimal tools then it gets my vote.

Our last trip in the defender was just short of 6000 miles in just over 14 days and the only things that happened were the diesel tank split along a seam during a day of rough roads and the downpipe sprung a pinhole leak so was blowing a bit. The fuelatnk was the original one fitted and was fairly rusty to start with and I should really have replaced it before we went but didnt get chance, same with the exhaust. Neither of these things stopped forward progress either.

£7000 will buy a very good base vehicle or another option would be to buy a bit of a dog, have loads of change and put it right - that way YOU know that it is right rather than wonderign if it is. I'd also go for something as near to standard as you can find (so it's not been messed around with too much) and I'd not worry too much about milage - service history is much more important.

I bought my 90 very cheaply because of an immobiliser fault, fixed that, reneweded lots of things like bushes, swivels, bearings, T belt etc so I knew they'd be good for a while, even rechassised it and I'm fairly sure it still doesn't stand me in at £7K includign buying it, all the bits and even the chassis.

A lot of people are wary of the ex utility ones, saying they've been worked hard - they may have been but that's what they are built to do and generally have been well serviced, even if they aren't the prettiest cosmetically. I had an ex electric board 130, straight from the utility company and it was great, unmolested and full of LRSV bits and bobs.

FWIW, I'm not anti any other brand in the slightest, but for certain things only a defender will do (though a 70 series LC pickup would be not far off )

Eh the TD5 was just my opinion and that's based from just experience in the Motor Trade.

Im not guna argue with those 300TDI figures. Clearly you've done quite a few miles in them!!!


What I am certain of is that Servicing and basic maintenance of any vehicle will help with overall reliability. Just make sure that if you buy a vehicle it has a proven service record and if possible repairs done with genuine manufacture parts.


TJ

I was thinking to buy a cheap one and invest money to rebuild it. That way I will know car inside out and I can use quality new parts. That way I should have reliable car.

200 or 300Tdi is the best option for long trips because they do not have to much electronic/ if I am right/.

delica wrote:

I was thinking to buy a cheap one and invest money to rebuild it. That way I will know car inside out and I can use quality new parts. That way I should have reliable car.

200 or 300Tdi is the best option for long trips because they do not have to much electronic/ if I am right/.

I'd agree with all of that (though don't go too cheap I reckon, try to end up with one that;'s mostly there to start with)

delica wrote:

I was thinking to buy a cheap one and invest money to rebuild it. That way I will know car inside out and I can use quality new parts. That way I should have reliable car.

200 or 300Tdi is the best option for long trips because they do not have to much electronic/ if I am right/.

If you do, Id love to see pics. Exciting times eh....

Exciting times thanks to our upcoming trip.
I will keep my mind open with Defender and will decide when we are back from trip. I am busy with planning, visas applications, ferries,...

What do you think about possibility to buy Defender 130 chassis cab and build camper shell ...something like Chris S has on his Man?
Would it be difficult to fix shell to the frame?
Something like this but cheaper http://www.neneoverland.co.uk/4x4defender110_used/used4x4defender110S132TBC.htm

delica wrote:

200 or 300Tdi is the best option for long trips because they do not have to much electronic/ if I am right/.

That is correct, and depending on where you are driving it the lack of electronics make for easier repairs. Not everyone has the analysis gear needed to fix the common electronic faults that happen in later Land Rovers. We have few LR dealers here in Aus, most breakdown services will not even look at them, they stick them straight on a truck and off to the dealer/repairer. At least these days yiou can order parts from all over the world if you get stuck, but you can't always find someone to do the repairs. Things to consider
I've never had an "unreliable" land rover, despite owning only landies for the last 28yrs, but they are not cheap to repair nor maintain. I have no idea how they stack up against other vehicles in that respect.

What parts would people see as expensive on a 200/300tdi then as I often see that comment made. Also don't be fooled by expensive defenders...price alone means nothing. I personally.think that buying a cheap one in fair condition is a good idea...then you can properly go through it and get to know the vehicle really well.

Also where are the easy roads in kazakhstan? Everywhere I went seemed to be either no roads at all...or they looked liked they had been bombed hehe!

rustyrhinos wrote:

What parts would people see as expensive on a 200/300tdi then as I often see that comment made. Also don't be fooled by expensive defenders...price alone means nothing. I personally.think that buying a cheap one in fair condition is a good idea...then you can properly go through it and get to know the vehicle really well.

Also where are the easy roads in kazakhstan? Everywhere I went seemed to be either no roads at all...or they looked liked they had been bombed hehe!

It depends what part of Kazakhstan you are talking about. We will go Mamlyutka-Astana -Almaty -Taldykorgan -Semey so roads are quiet good..few potholes, but nothing difficult/ local use them and they do not have 4x4/.
What I was told by locals, southern part of Kazakhstan is worst, especially after rain.

I think that trip to Kamchatka will be real expedition..and that is why I am thinking about Defender.

rustyrhinos wrote:

I personally.think that buying a cheap one in fair condition is a good idea...then you can properly go through it and get to know the vehicle really well.

Agreed.



Having the opportunity to work in the motor trade has "opended" my eyes on the LR Brand, specifically the cost of buying one. Due to Land Rover being the Most common and sought after 4x4 in the UK the private sector prices are stupidly high.

For example Last week on ebay I saw a 90 defender, 1989 200tdi, with 155,000 miles and it was advertised as £4995. In 2007 I bought my 2004 Terracan for £4995. Im not saying you have to get a Terracan, but due to the high perches price of the Land rovers for the same money you can get a 7-15 year newer vehicle with 2x the equipment and half the miles for the same price. Thats where the Jap vehicles come in.

But Having read your previous statement of a 4x4 needing to be able to with stand tougher conditions when in Russian and the surrounding areas a LR would be perfect. But then IMO so would a 70/80/100 series Landcruiser or Patrol, in better condition and newer for the same money.
The main issue I try to point out to customers is vehicle value for money. It might be a Terracan, Sorento, a Rexton or a Surf, there not as good to look at and not as "cool" but you get more for your £££££, & to me that is very important, especially in this economic climate.

The one thing that land rover really has going for it like Jeep, is the amount of off the shelf, off road hardware and accessories. They are like a blank canvas for a 4x4 artist.

Take your time and pick up a cheap Gem. or rough diamond.....

TJ

Terracan Jas wrote:

rustyrhinos wrote:

I personally.think that buying a cheap one in fair condition is a good idea...then you can properly go through it and get to know the vehicle really well.

But then IMO so would a 70/80/100 series Landcruiser or Patrol, in better condition and newer for the same money.


TJ

Are you sure? Good Toyota LC80..not very easy to find one, Troopie/78/ starts at £12000 for 10 years old car...

Ideally I would love to have just one car. Our Delica is quiet good offroad/ 2''lift, rear air locker,.../ but it is not a car for hard offroad. It is a great 4x4 camper, very comfy on the road, space inside is unbelievable, so I do not want to damage it. It is car for our long distance travel.

What is better Defender x Toyota x Patrol ..there is no one easy answer.

Why I like Defender...good looking car , spare parts are cheap and easy to get in UK, does not have windows in the back, easy to fix if you know how, LR clubs around the world, cheaper to buy then Toyota, better fuel consumption, it is more like LEGO toy..
As I said, we want to visit some really remote places, where are no roads, so if I can have reliable Defender, I would love to have one in future.
Having said that, nice Troopie for good price...anytime please, but it will never happen

You are right about the 80 series, there are not many standard ones left, and they have indeed gone up abit in price. Apologies.

You could always just buy a LWB 70 series.
A few months back the company I worked for bought a 1994 70 series Prado (Landcruiser) 3.0td with front and rear lockers. 120,000 miles, auto, imported from Japan 3 months prior to perchase, and that was £3995.
You could do the same, maybe net your self a bargain. But it is probably less hassle and quicker finding the right Defender.

Jas

Any LR News or LR Buy's yet?

TJ

Terracan Jas wrote:

Any LR News or LR Buy's yet?

TJ

Not yet.
I would like to build one which will last long and survive future trips to Russia, but I do not have money for that kind of project

How about 235/85/16's on the Delcia? Trim the arches abit, the 2.8 should cope fine with them. Would give you more height under your axles.

or this option...38 size tyres

I imagine that the cost to get 38" under the arches would be alot.

I can get 33" rubber on the Terracan but I need a 2" body lift, and with trimming the arches it would accommodate 35" tall tires. I got a quote for the works from a 4x4 company any I was looking at £2K+ including labour. This is my Dream: http://arctictrucks.com/Pages/1367

The only problem with putting those tyres on the Delcia that I can see is a: Gearing and b: side slopes????


TJ

My dream are portal axles, 2.8TGV and complete winter package on Defender 110+ so many other things / £20K+/