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 Champion winches + Other winches

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roamingman
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 5:12 am

Assassin i see your point, would not buy from online site, was thinking maybe at a LR show, someone who is upgrading or stoping. Then have it serviced by someone who knowswhat they are doing, or do you think that would work out dearer.
thanks yoda Smile clinking teacups
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Assassin
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 5:24 am

I can only think of two secondhand winches that were any good, one came from a friend who fitted it and used it once, and the other one which came of a vehicle which had been rolled and was a write off, this was only 6 weeks old and according to the driver had never been used in anger.

In every other case the winches required many repairs and spares, with the combined cost of the secondhand winch and the spares needed often exceeded the price of a new winch with a full guarantee. So on balance i would not suggest people buy a secondhand winch, and everyone i know have found pretty much the same thing.
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roamingman
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 5:37 am

ok and thanks for your input, have to save a bit more clinking teacups
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4x4overlander
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 8:38 am

I have seen synthetic winch lines snap and some of them have 'flown'.

It is obvious from certain photos some people have no concept of a 'safety zone'

I treat all lines under tension with the greatest of respect.



Brendan

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Assassin
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 12:31 pm

The best option is to go for a demonstrator from a show, you will get al least a reduction equivalent to the VAT as this is reclaimable as demonstrators are legally classed as secondhand items and sellers can offset the VAT through their books every quarter.

You may have a winch which is secondhand, but it will have been used properly by people who know them, and you know what it has done, and that it has not been abused.

On the subject of flying ropes, i agree with 4X4 Overlander as i have seen similar things, and yes he does know what he is talking about.
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roamingman
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 13, 2011 5:49 am

Assassin thanks for that info, will look at the shows wewill be atending cheers
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Jas
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 13, 2011 5:55 am


Out of interest has does anyone use wireless handsets for the winch instead to the usual plug in? Are they reliable? Do you have to buy a seperate control reciever to plud in to the winch?

And is it possible to wire the winch controlls up inside the cab like a dash mounted switch line in/out? Instead of using either plug in or wireless controler.


TJ

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4x4overlander
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 13, 2011 6:14 am

Terracan Jas wrote:


And is it possible to wire the winch controlls up inside the cab like a dash mounted switch line in/out? Instead of using either plug in or wireless controler.


TJ

YES most of the comp boys have in cab controls plus switches by the winch. Much easier for winch bitch outside to control the winch then the driver in his nice warm cab

HTH

Brendan


PS Electric window switches or On Off On switches in the cab. Outside the switches are more robust. Two push buttons for in/out
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Jas
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 13, 2011 7:06 am

4x4overlander wrote:
Terracan Jas wrote:


And is it possible to wire the winch controlls up inside the cab like a dash mounted switch line in/out? Instead of using either plug in or wireless controler.


TJ

YES most of the comp boys have in cab controls plus switches by the winch. Much easier for winch bitch outside to control the winch then the driver in his nice warm cab

HTH

Brendan


PS Electric window switches or On Off On switches in the cab. Outside the switches are more robust. Two push buttons for in/out

Ta, i thought it might be easier to control it from the cab and warmer Very Happy

Some thing to think about when i get the winch.

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MrLeadfoot
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 13, 2011 7:20 am

first rule of winching, the operator keep an eye on the winch.
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 13, 2011 12:42 pm

You can have either or both, the wireless winches are considerably more expensive and not without their own specific problems, mainly down th the electronics employed in them, and if there are a number of people winching in the vicinity you may get signal problems due to their working frequency.

Ask yourself a simple question, a winch with either a hand control or cab mounted controls is simple, wireless ones contain electronics, and with the best will in the world it is virtually impossible to waterproof them entirely, and water is a common feature of mud and does electronics no good.

This leaves you the options to consider and form your own opinion as to what is best for you.

I prefer to have both the cab mounted switches and a seperate long plug in control, this is done by buying another plug and hard wiring it to cab switches, thus giving you hard inside wiring. Having the seperate lead means you simply unplug the internal wiring plug from the winch and plug your hand held lead into the winch and use this, giving the best of both worlds.

One other point worthy of mention is that most plug in leads are long enough to reach the cab from the winch as they are trailed over the bonnet, so you may decide not to have internal switches.
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graeme
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 14, 2011 8:27 am

one option is to move the control box up under the bonnet away from all the water and mud . i moved mine the day i fitted my winch . its wireless controller hasn`t been any problem at all . i also have the wonderlead plug on the front grill and a second one on the control box ,just in case .
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Assassin
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 14, 2011 12:23 pm

I used to remotely mount mine also, it is another variant of what can be done to make the systems more reliable.
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Jas
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 14, 2011 11:18 pm


All good ideas, when i fabricate my hidden winch mount i will put the controll box in the engine bay and look to wire up the winch in cab or wireless controler. The only problem i can think of is accessing the freespool lever. - Suppose ill have to have a hole somewere.

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 15, 2011 5:47 am

There are electrically operated freespool assemblies available, but why bother as it is not an issue as someone has to get out and pull the rope out and connect it anyway.

The solonoid packs being mounted under the bonnet is a good idea, but many mount at them at the front of the vehicle as close to the winch as possible to keep cable runs short, these are often open to the same types of conditions as being mounted directly onto the winch, so in many cases it is not worth doing. I prefer to mount them high on the bulkhead, they are out of harms way from water and mud, and more importantly, away from any potential accident damage, and much better if a remote transmitter/receiver are being used, i mount mine in one of the excellent waterproof boxes for additional protection.

If you follow this route your cables will be longer, the longer they are then the larger they need to be because of their current carrying capacity, if it does not recommend a minimum size for your length of cables then refer to the manufacturer for their recommendations.
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Tom Mc
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 15, 2011 6:31 am

graeme wrote:
one option is to move the control box up under the bonnet away from all the water and mud . i moved mine the day i fitted my winch . its wireless controller hasn`t been any problem at all . i also have the wonderlead plug on the front grill and a second one on the control box ,just in case .
Good advice. Wish I had done the same with my ECU located under the driver's seat in the Range Rover Classic. Strangely enough, watery mud and electrics don't mix!

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Jas
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 15, 2011 7:07 am


Ill have to check but im quite sure the ecu for my truck is in a box at the back right of the engine bay with rubber seals. - I may be mistaken but i will check this.

Ive been watching some videos on youtube of winches most being used in challenges and competition and alot of them run the warn 8427 with a load of gigglepin accessories. I noticed that they were very fast indeed but for general self recovery can the fast winch line in speed be a problem even dangerous? Too fast to read the ground or react?

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 15, 2011 8:47 am

Jim Marsden of Gigglepin makes some extremely good winches for competition use and yes they are fast and strong. If you want his top upgrades I hope you have very deep pockets.

For recreational recovery you don't need his type of winch. You might want it, might be able to afford it but do you need it?


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Jas
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 15, 2011 9:05 am


Im not looking to spent that much money on a winch or accessories around £400. I was just impressed with the speed of the winch and that i didnt think it was the best choice for general self recovery.

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 15, 2011 12:34 pm

If you mount an ECU in a waterproof housing, do not forget to earth the chassis of the ECU to a good earth or it will not work.
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 15, 2011 12:49 pm

Assassin wrote:
If you mount an ECU in a waterproof housing, do not forget to earth the chassis of the ECU to a good earth or it will not work.
That's interesting. As I'm next to useless with electrical stuff I don't know the answer, but after my 'mishap' in a watery grave, the next time I ventured out I simply slung the ECU on the passenger shelf under the dash. In fact, when heading towards yet another bomb hole I even cable-tied it on top of the plastic dashboard - no earth there?

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 15, 2011 10:53 pm

Tom Mc wrote:
Assassin wrote:
If you mount an ECU in a waterproof housing, do not forget to earth the chassis of the ECU to a good earth or it will not work.
That's interesting. As I'm next to useless with electrical stuff I don't know the answer, but after my 'mishap' in a watery grave, the next time I ventured out I simply slung the ECU on the passenger shelf under the dash. In fact, when heading towards yet another bomb hole I even cable-tied it on top of the plastic dashboard - no earth there?

Cant say i new either of that! But as the position of the ECU is where the factory put it when it was made i hope they thought of this.......

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 16, 2011 7:26 am

It does depend on what type of ECU it is, but generally they earth through the metal body in most applications, there are a number which have one or more earth lines through different functions in the injection system, so it may work reasonably well as long as not all the function earths have a high resistance.
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 16, 2011 9:13 am

Assassin wrote:
It does depend on what type of ECU it is, but generally they earth through the metal body in most applications, there are a number which have one or more earth lines through different functions in the injection system, so it may work reasonably well as long as not all the function earths have a high resistance.

This is mentle. I didnt know anything about this.

I dont suppose you know how to tell if its earthed? I know my ecu box is probably different to yours but if i know what it looks like then i might be able to find it. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 16, 2011 12:53 pm

If you have a wiring diagram it will tell you, but not obviously; you will have to eliminate every wire to every function until you have just a few.

There will invariably be several power feeds in for different functions and some will be screened, then it will leave any remaining wires who's colours will have to be checked, as most vehicles have a standard earth colour and you have one left of this colour not connected to a function it must be an earth.

There is also a secondary function of mounting the ECU chassis to earth, and that is RFI (radio frequency interference) which it may emit, earthing directly to the body is a cheap way of eliminating it.
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