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 Champion winches + Other winches

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Jas
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PostSubject: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyMon Jan 10, 2011 7:06 am

Ive been looking at a fue different makes of winches over the past fue weeks hopeing to buy in a month or two. After extensive reaserch i like the specs and price range of the Champion C9500 EWX 12v. Ive asked around about this winch or similar winches from the Champion brand on another Forum but i have'nt had any useful reply's.

So:

Has anyone had any experiance with The Champion C9500 EWX 12v or any other winch from the Champion brand?

Also There is a Champion C9500 12v Short Drum version availabe for slightly less, i am also concidering this as the winch could possibly be in a hidden winch mount. Pros - Its smaller and weighs nearly half of the Full size C9500. Cons - Its maximum wire length is 15 meters compared to 30 meters in the Full size C9500. Warrenty is with both of these winches covering recovery and off road use.

http://www.electricwinchshop.co.uk/winches/champion.html?p=2

Any input at all?

TJ

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyMon Jan 10, 2011 7:29 am

have you considered extreme terrain winch`s or come up ?
i had a cheapo [£250] 9000lbs winch that went through 2 gear box`s before the motor burnt out [15 months]. i know have a 12000lbs extreme terrain on the front of my disco , so far its been very reliable [over 2 years ]and not a bad price , look at the winch solutions web site , or give them a call and ask to speak to steve . http://www.winchsolutions.co.uk/ they are also dealers for champion if thats what your hearts set on .


for other recovery gear go and look at this website ,http://www.recce-gear.moonfruit.com , email or ring and speak to bertie and he`ll sort you out with what you need , not what you think you need or whats the most costly , he`s and ok guy to deal with aswell , just drop my name into the convosation .
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyMon Jan 10, 2011 7:51 am

Terracan Jas wrote:

Ive been looking at a fue different makes of winches over the past fue weeks hopeing to buy in a month or two. After extensive reaserch i like the specs and price range of the Champion C9500 EWX 12v. Ive asked around about this winch or similar winches from the Champion brand on another Forum but i have'nt had any useful reply's.

So:

Has anyone had any experiance with The Champion C9500 EWX 12v or any other winch from the Champion brand?

Also There is a Champion C9500 12v Short Drum version availabe for slightly less, i am also concidering this as the winch could possibly be in a hidden winch mount. Pros - Its smaller and weighs nearly half of the Full size C9500. Cons - Its maximum wire length is 15 meters compared to 30 meters in the Full size C9500. Warrenty is with both of these winches covering recovery and off road use.

http://www.electricwinchshop.co.uk/winches/champion.html?p=2

Any input at all?

TJ


Terracan Jas'

my winch came from this company,i'm very happy with it,chances are the insides are all the same,just different casing/stickers ,my mate had a champion on his disco and that was perfectly ok (he's not the best person for looking after stuff either).

Jerry
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyMon Jan 10, 2011 7:54 am

graeme wrote:
have you considered extreme terrain winch`s or come up ?
i had a cheapo [£250] 9000lbs winch that went through 2 gear box`s before the motor burnt out [15 months]. i know have a 12000lbs extreme terrain on the front of my disco , so far its been very reliable [over 2 years ]and not a bad price , look at the winch solutions web site , or give them a call and ask to speak to steve . http://www.winchsolutions.co.uk/ they are also dealers for champion if thats what your hearts set on .


for other recovery gear go and look at this website ,http://www.recce-gear.moonfruit.com , email or ring and speak to bertie and he`ll sort you out with what you need , not what you think you need or whats the most costly , he`s and ok guy to deal with aswell , just drop my name into the convosation .

Thanks for those links.

I will have a good look at both of them, like i said i dont need the winch asap. Im just after a stout value for money winch.

J

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyMon Jan 10, 2011 9:26 am



If you not in a hurry for a winch ,it might be an idea to wait until the 4x4 shows start.
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyMon Jan 10, 2011 9:45 am

Biodoctor wrote:


If you not in a hurry for a winch ,it might be an idea to wait until the 4x4 shows start.

Thats a good idea, could probably pick up a good deal.

J

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 12:27 am

Terracan Jas wrote:
Biodoctor wrote:


If you not in a hurry for a winch ,it might be an idea to wait until the 4x4 shows start.

Thats a good idea, could probably pick up a good deal.

J

paying in cash nearly always gets a discount to (as opposed to paying by card)
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 2:56 am


What do you think about getting the short drum version?

It is lighter and smaller in size but.........

Will i miss that extra 10-15 meters of winch cable?

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 3:16 am

if you have it fine Smile
if not you'l wish you had then Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 6:14 am

If I was about to head off into the wild blue yonder on my own, If I couldn't afford a quality winch - Warn, Goodwinch, Husky, Superwinch, etc. I would definitely have on board a hand-cranked Tirfor winch. Would prefer that to a cheap, iffy electric jobbie to be honest. The chances of using any winch would be remote, but if you were in that sort of situation I would want to be 100% certain I could get out; you couldn't guarantee that with a cheapie!

A company called Lifting & Crane sell their own version of the Tirfor. The proprietor Alan Satchell (one of the good guys) has them manufactured to his specification so they are not simply a poor Chinese copy, they are solid and reliable - www.liftingandcrane.co.uk/offroadrecovery/ropehoists.php

Also by being hidden on board, far less chance of having it nicked.

Money no object - Goodwinch or Warn.

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 8:39 am

Tom Mc wrote:
If I was about to head off into the wild blue yonder on my own, If I couldn't afford a quality winch - Warn, Goodwinch, Husky, Superwinch, etc. I would definitely have on board a hand-cranked Tirfor winch. Would prefer that to a cheap, iffy electric jobbie to be honest. The chances of using any winch would be remote, but if you were in that sort of situation I would want to be 100% certain I could get out; you couldn't guarantee that with a cheapie!

A company called Lifting & Crane sell their own version of the Tirfor. The proprietor Alan Satchell (one of the good guys) has them manufactured to his specification so they are not simply a poor Chinese copy, they are solid and reliable - www.liftingandcrane.co.uk/offroadrecovery/ropehoists.php

Also by being hidden on board, far less chance of having it nicked.

Money no object - Goodwinch or Warn.

I may be wrong but i thought that Goodwinch, KingOne and Champion winches are manufactured in the same factory and are identical to each other, the only difference is the sticker logo and the price. My jeep friend has a Goodwinch goldfish and when he opened the instructions it said "KingOne".....

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 9:36 am



Tirfor's are great ,but hard work ,best if someone else operates the lever while you steer the vehicle Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 12:20 pm

Terracan Jas wrote:
Tom Mc wrote:
If I was about to head off into the wild blue yonder on my own, If I couldn't afford a quality winch - Warn, Goodwinch, Husky, Superwinch, etc. I would definitely have on board a hand-cranked Tirfor winch. Would prefer that to a cheap, iffy electric jobbie to be honest. The chances of using any winch would be remote, but if you were in that sort of situation I would want to be 100% certain I could get out; you couldn't guarantee that with a cheapie!

A company called Lifting & Crane sell their own version of the Tirfor. The proprietor Alan Satchell (one of the good guys) has them manufactured to his specification so they are not simply a poor Chinese copy, they are solid and reliable - www.liftingandcrane.co.uk/offroadrecovery/ropehoists.php

Also by being hidden on board, far less chance of having it nicked.

Money no object - Goodwinch or Warn.

I may be wrong but i thought that Goodwinch, KingOne and Champion winches are manufactured in the same factory and are identical to each other, the only difference is the sticker logo and the price. My jeep friend has a Goodwinch goldfish and when he opened the instructions it said "KingOne".....
Opps! Really don't know the answer to that one, its just that when it comes to the internals of a winch, 'Bertie' Bowyer (the chap behind Goodwinch) knows his stuff.

And yes, far better to stay behind the wheel. Believe me, the Tirfor would only surface if I was in real censored .

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 12:43 pm

It is a best avoided winch unless you only use it very lightly and only periodically.

The problem with these cheap winches is duty cycle, basically the duty cycle is the amount of time it can winch against the time it has to stand to prevent damage, usually from overheating, and these winches have a very low duty cycle indeed when compared to reputable brands, the Champion is about 10% duty cycle from memory.

Many winch manufacturers do their premuim branded winches which have their often deserved good reputations, but they also do cheaper variants which are made in the same factory, but made in the same factory is a misnomer, i will explain.
Where something is made is legally defined as the where the last production process takes place, in the case of a winch manufacturer it is often where the assembly takes place as they buy in many or all of their components from suppliers, or buy in some components and manufacture others themselves. Premium branded winches will have decent quality components from suppliers, and high quality parts manufactured in house, these are then assembled to make a quality winch which gets a good reputation which is deserved.
The same factory buys in parts for its cheaper ranges and assembles them, most are from Asian sources and have much cheaper and considerable less durable motors, lower quality steels and machining on critical components such as gears and driveshafts, and poor quality castings. Yet these are asembled in the same factory, and many people assume that because they are made in the same factory that they are of the same quality.

Ask yourselves a simple question, if a premium branded winch is made in a factory and retails at around £700, a fairly typical price, and the budget brand retails for £300, where have the savings been made. The factory has the same overheads, it pays the same workers the same rates to assemble either premuim or budget brand winches, so where have the savings been made? clearly on the components which have been bought in as they are cheap and nasty.

One problem reoccurs with budget winches, and it is a major safety issue which could kill a user, it is the rope used on the winch as it is a cheap steel rope of poor quality, they suffer from a lack of lubrication internally and snap while heavily laden, a flying rope will easily kill an operator if they are hit by it.
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 1:43 pm

Yep, winch blankets are essential. If nothing else is to hand, then a tow rope or even an old coat is better than nothing.

I posted this photo already somewhere - not sure if it was this forum or not - even if duplicated it's worth another outing. It's ace, especially when you realise this is one of the most prestigious competitive winching events in the world - the Rainforest Challenge of Malaysia. How this competitor got in such a muddle is not exactly clear; embarrassing or wot? Embarassed

Champion winches + Other winches Tom_s_11


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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 9:59 pm

if you worried of it snapping and killing then why not use a Synthetic Winch Rope?

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 11:20 pm

Know what you're saying, but that's the idea of buying a cheap winch isn't it ... because it's cheap! It comes in an all-in-one package ready to go. So where do you stop? Do you add a branded synthetic rope (as I'm sure there are already synthetic ropes out there that are poor quality imitations), an uprated motor, stronger internals? You might as well go for a branded name in the first place and have the reassurance of knowing it will do the job it's designed for.

The thing is, most people would think to themselves (quite rightly of course) that a new winch & cable would be fine for the little they are going to use it - for emergencies only - and whilst that is okay in theory, it may not be true in practice. A poor cable can snap the very first time it's used, whereas a good quality cable can last for years. The same is true of the winch itself, that's why I would prefer a Tirfor as I know would do the job eventually rather than the easier yet iffy option of a cheap winch. All winches are lovely and shiny when new, doesn't mean a thing when they are put under strain.

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 11:32 pm

Im hearing what your all saying.

I will keep doing the reaserch, and possibly shift my atention to tabor, superwinch, warn. When i do get a winch and i need to recover my self i DO want it to work.

"Ask yourselves a simple question, if a premium branded winch is made in a factory and retails at around £700, a fairly typical price, and the budget brand retails for £300, where have the savings been made. The factory has the same overheads, it pays the same workers the same rates to assemble either premuim or budget brand winches, so where have the savings been made? clearly on the components which have been bought in as they are cheap and nasty.

One problem reoccurs with budget winches, and it is a major safety issue which could kill a user, it is the rope used on the winch as it is a cheap steel rope of poor quality, they suffer from a lack of lubrication internally and snap while heavily laden, a flying rope will easily kill an operator if they are hit by it
." - Want to avoid all of this

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 12:08 am


My winch rope is synthetic, ive seen one snap and it just fell to the floor ,steel ones are dangerous though as there's a lot of stored energy in them when they snap.
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 12:16 am

The issue of using a synthetic rope is a valid one, and personally i have used them for years along with stainless ropes, but here is the problem; many budget winches are not designed to take synthetic ropes while premium branded winches can take either.

Synthetic ropes are not cheap either, if someone is looking for a budget winch that they may not have, or be willing to spend this additional amount on a synthetic rope. Use is also another factor, many portray synthetic ropes as the last word in winch ropes, but they have limitations like any other rope.
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 12:23 am

Terracan:

I would recommend buying a winch with temperature indicator, this is merely a thermistor in the winch which interprets temperature into an electrical resistance, it then powers an LED in the winch control and allows you to stop winching if the motor becomes too hot and the LED is lit.

The greatest problem with electric winches is thet most people overwork them and burn out the motors, the motors only carry a LIMITED WARRANTY irrespective of brand, and the limited warranty is for this very reason. If you are a newcomer to winching then i would suggest a winching course, they teach the basics of winching and the foibles of winches such as overloading as more layers are wound onto the winch drum, a good course will save your winch, considerable expense, and possibly your life.

The cost of a winching course? often less than a replacement winch electric motor.
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 12:34 am

Hi all been watching this thread, and taking in all the advice and comments, all good,
so just to throw a spanner in the debate, what are peoples thoght on a good make second hand winch, wich could be a bit cheaper than new. clinking teacups
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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 12:56 am

this winch debate could go on forever ,at the end of the day it all boils down to personal choice/cost ,what might be perfectly adequate for one might not suit another ,my winch cost me just over £ 300.00 ,and has always been perfectly ok for my needs ,i don't use it every weekend or even every month,but it is run occasioally just to keep moving parts moving,spending over 1k on a winch that isn't going to get used much ,to me is just a waste of money,my 300 quid winch pulled four trucks out of a 3' deep washout without problem .

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 2:24 am

Assassin wrote:
Terracan:

I would recommend buying a winch with temperature indicator, this is merely a thermistor in the winch which interprets temperature into an electrical resistance, it then powers an LED in the winch control and allows you to stop winching if the motor becomes too hot and the LED is lit.

The greatest problem with electric winches is thet most people overwork them and burn out the motors, the motors only carry a LIMITED WARRANTY irrespective of brand, and the limited warranty is for this very reason. If you are a newcomer to winching then i would suggest a winching course, they teach the basics of winching and the foibles of winches such as overloading as more layers are wound onto the winch drum, a good course will save your winch, considerable expense, and possibly your life.

The cost of a winching course? often less than a replacement winch electric motor.

The LED sound good if i used it alot. - Doesnt most of the top winches automaticaly shut off if they run to hot?

Winching cousre sound like a good idea. And if it avoids injuy or miss-use of a winch then it should be worth the money.

I'll b at a fue shows this year so hopefully i will pick up a bargain at one of them. As to which one who knowes. If anything i started off looking at one brand now im looking at 6 winch brands. Laughing getting nowhere fast

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PostSubject: Re: Champion winches + Other winches   Champion winches + Other winches EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 3:37 am

No, very few actually shut off as it could be dangerous if the vehicle is in a precarious position and you have to stop winching through heat build up in the motor, which could leave you and your vehicle exposed with it hanging on the internal braking mechanism.
In such conditions it is better to continue winching, and burning the motor out than risking your life or others lives, and your vehicle.

This is the reason many are fitted with thermal detection, plus it is a nice option for winch manufacturers to include as an expensive and profitable option. The last one i saw charged £50 for the LED indicator, the parts cost less than 50p so we can see the profitibility.

Buying a secondhand winch? dubious, ask a simple question, why is it being sold? over the years i have seen countless winches for sale and they nearly always have problems, overheated motors on their last legs, internally worn and corroded from years of immersion in water, and general lack of any maintenence. Many of the issues do not manifest themselves until the winch is working at the upper end of its rated limit, by then you are stuck and it is too late,; although i have seen the odd bargain, but they are very rare, and generally i would not recommend buying secondhand, especially off the common or popular sales sites.
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