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 how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)

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Biodoctor
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PostSubject: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyFri Jan 07, 2011 9:34 am

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Last edited by Biodoctor on Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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graeme
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyFri Jan 07, 2011 9:36 am

the wife does my recovery straps for me , in the washer Laughing
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freespirit4x4
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyFri Jan 07, 2011 9:46 am

that can't be good for the machine, Laughing
i use a bath tub and washing powder

i replace ropes every 2-3 years without fail reguardless of condition, its a habbit us climbers have to get into Laughing
plus that way you always have a spare rope just incase yours isn't long enough

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4x4overlander
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptySat Jan 08, 2011 4:39 am

Find a stream with a reasonable flow. Anchor one end of rope/strap and let nature do the work.

Brendan
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptySat Jan 08, 2011 4:46 am

you do have to be aware of what you wash them with as many detergents are a no, no for KERR's.
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Biodoctor
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptySat Jan 08, 2011 9:20 am

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Last edited by Biodoctor on Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tom Mc
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptySat Jan 08, 2011 12:11 pm

4x4overlander wrote:
Find a stream with a reasonable flow. Anchor one end of rope/strap and let nature do the work.
The same is true of a nylon net-type bag with fairly large hoes ... ideal for keeping the beers cold. Wink

'ere Biodoctor, when washing your rope do you use a bio detergent? Razz

And last but not least, sorry to be the one to spoil the party, but washing ropes in washing machines, sinks and baths is asking for trouble. Think about it. Where does all that grit and sand end up when it goes down the plughole? Obviously the majority gets carried away with water to the outside drains, but a fair percentage will end up lodged in the U-bend - never to move until the place finally floods as the water backs up. Add grease from kitchen sinks and soap/hair from basins and baths, and it doesn't take a genius to work out the consequences.

If you haven't got a handy stream to hand (Brendan's method) then use an outside tap and a yard brush. A lot less hassle in the long term. I know, I speak with the voice of experience. No


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Biodoctor
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptySun Jan 09, 2011 12:56 am

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Last edited by Biodoctor on Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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tuggy
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyMon Jan 10, 2011 9:31 am

DUDE,,,,,,,IN THE WASHING MACHINE,,, scratching chin ,,,,your crazy,,,,,,,, :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

just let them dry,,,,and bang them on the ground and the sxit will drop off,,,,,,,,,,then put them back in your recovery bag,,,, cheers

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Biodoctor
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 12:22 am

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Last edited by Biodoctor on Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tom Mc
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 6:16 am

Besides Bio, tuggy lives in Spain. It would never dry out over here! No

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Biodoctor
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 7:47 am

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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 12:26 am

Why wish you had not bothered?

You have raised an important issue which has been taken on board by many people, and highlighted a potential problem with cleaning KERR's.
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Biodoctor
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 1:30 am

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Last edited by Biodoctor on Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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4x4overlander
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 1:43 am

As a matter of interest Biodoctor am I one of these?

Quote :


"know alls"(some of which probably don't even own a KERR)




Brendan
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 3:45 am

There is significant evidence to substiantiate what has been said, the makers recommendations themselves show several components damage the fibres, and a number are contained in washing powder, washing up liquid, and many other domestic cleaning products.

As for being a "Know All", well its an interesting slur as none of us know it all, but i can claim to have over 20 years experience of working with KERR's and not all for vehicle recovery. I have seen the early ropes and their problems, the considerable improvements, and many of the common pitfalls; so does that make me a know all, or just experienced.

If somenone does something potentially dangerous, irrespective of what it is, would you attempt to educate them or let them get on with it? here lies the issue, many people come onto forums such as these, there are wide ranging expertise among the group, and many have little experience so look to learn from more experienced people.

Incidentally i have a drum of Marlow, and i splice my own.
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4x4overlander
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyThu Jan 13, 2011 3:23 am

Biodoctor wrote:
Assassin wrote:
Why wish you had not bothered?

You have raised an important issue which has been taken on board by many people, and highlighted a potential problem with cleaning KERR's.

the topic was posted to raise a laugh ,i didn't expect loads of "know alls"(some of which probably don't even own a KERR) to come on saying you shouldn't do this and you should have done that !,as yet nobody's come up with a scrap of evidence saying that you can damage a "KERR" by washing it getting nowhere fast



Well someone has not yet answered my question of whether I am considered to be a 'know all'

Do I own a KERR? YES

Do I use it these days? NO I prefer nylon snatch straps as they are in general terms safer and easier to store.

Quote :

A scrap of energy saying that you can damage a "KERR" by washing it.


Not directly on a KERR, but a KERR as a much more open structure then caving ropes especially of polyester caving ropes used in SRT

There was a lot of work done back in the 1970's by M. Penny, D. Brook and A. J. Eavis. None of which is probably online but if you troll around the CRG/BCRA/ULSA journals of that time there is information about how dirt actually weakens the ropes. IIRC there is a section about dirt penetration including photographs of grit causing damage to rope fibres in Martins PhD thesis of that time. Angular grit particles causing most damage when they were forced deep into the rope and the rope being subsequently stretched. Best way of cleaning a caving rope? Hang it in a waterfall but ensure it is not bashing against rocks. Grit on a caving rope not only cause possible premature failure of the rope with possible serious personal injuries at stake but wear equipment like ascenders/descenders out faster. Using a descender etc on a muddy rope forces grit etc into the rope

I at that time was doing test on physical damage to webbing and chemical contamination on webbing for Troll

Yes if you search the internet you will find climbers machine washing their climbing ropes. However whilst they are nylon ropes there are some importance differences (1) the degree of dirt, a climbing rope rarely gets caked in mud (2) construction of the rope being kernmantel gives a degree of resistance to grit entering the core of the rope. So that really does not apply to KERR.

What evidence have you got that you actually cleaned the inside of the rope and did not actually force grit particles further into the construction of the rope?

My background? A wee bit of physical testing on stuff finer then human hair up to 19 1/2" steel wire assemblies. Design, testing and manufacturer of webbing climbing/caving equipment. Worked with companies such as Marlow and Bridon amongst many others. At one stage was in charge of the biggest 1,500 tonne tensile test machine in the UK, before it was superceded by the 2,000 tonne machine at the University of Leeds

Last 'little' rope project I worked on the individual rope fibres was 1.8mm diameter of Polyoxymethylene which is not exactly standard rope material. That rope had to be coiled onto a 2m diameter drum.

So yes I do take exception to the slur of being a "know all" on my character and experience.

Doubly so from a person who has no concept of a safety zone!

Brendan
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PostSubject: Re: how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR)   how to clean a kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR) EmptyThu Jan 13, 2011 3:34 am

Biodoctor wrote:
Assassin wrote:
you do have to be aware of what you wash them with as many detergents are a no, no for KERR's.

well the KERR didn't come with washing instructions doh



Pete Hutch of Mountain Equipment refused to sell his sleeping bags into the USA because he could not put enough warning/instruction labels on his sleeping bags. Such as this sleeping bag is intended for sleeping in and not for canoeing in. A canoeist drowned whilst canoeing in his sleeping bag and family sued the manufacturer for no warning label against canoeing whilst in a sleeping bag.


No washing instructions? affraid Maybe the manufacturer did not expect their equipment to be washed in a washing machine? getting nowhere fast


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