My navigation equipment

a 99p compass from ebay:



And of course paper maps, which in many places are used as a reference rather than navigation. Needless to say now and then we get lost, but that is all part of it on our opinion - many of the best experiences we have had we have only stumbled across by accident. We have been criticised fo this style of navigation, but hey, each to their own.....plotting a route via a GPS device and then following it is not our style!

We do use satnav now and then if we are wanting to whip across Europe as quick as we can.

We now also use a GPS tracker (which is not used for navigation at all). This is basically a box with a GPS receiver inside and a mobile phone sim card. It takes reference points (programmed to whatever frequency we like) which stores location, speed and direction - which we overlay onto a map after the trip. The sim card means that we can stream our progress live, directly to our website - friends and relatives in particular enjoy this. The tracker was supplied by Chris @ Pebbletrack http://www.pebbletrack.co.uk/ - I would strongly recommend this company.

Examples of how we used the tracker can be found at http://www.rustyrhinos.com/moroccanroadtrip2010/m_route.html

rustyrhinos
clicked on your link did not find anythink came up with not found

fixed - I missed a letter out!

Totally agree RustyRhinos that everyone should also take paper maps and know how to read them You should NEVER rely wholly on electronic navigation gear....too many things can disable it and leave you geographically embarrassed

Like roamingman tho, I like to have that coloured line on a map that I can use to see where I have been once I get home. Living in a rainforest area means most of the tracks around here do not show up on GoogleEarth due to the thick forest growth, so having that little line is a great help

Hi Vixen. Would not say I am a particularly good navigator....but if you are lost, maps are much better. GPS can tell you where you are - but what use is that when you come to something unpassable? I know some of us like to think that our vehicles can go anywhere - but the reality is that nature decides that. On many occasions we have found locals, and with maps, drawings in the dirt (and the occasional nomad jumping in our car with us!) we have found our way out of it - GPS can only tell you what direction to go in a straight line - not always useful!

Vixen I agree with you about being able to see where you have been- we use our GPS tracker to show exactly where we have been - and when we are our travels it streams direct to our website - when we are on our travels it shows our route progress, last known positon as well as internal and external temperatures. All the data is stored on the device and also remotely uploaded. This data can then be overlayed onto maps - see our it examples at check out http://www.rustyrhinos.com/moroccanroadtrip2010/m_route.html - the great thing about it is that our photos and videos are timestamped, so we can correlate this with our GPS references - seeing palces we have been to on Google Satellite view is pretty damn cool in my opinion!

Our GPS device can be remotely accessed (for software updates, problems, etc) and also has the capabilty for a "panic" button - which sends alerts to the website, and can be setup to monitor and store engine temperature, charge and battery levels and all sorts. I have gone on a bit now, this is probably boing to most!

How come you can be pottering quite happily along a French national heading north when the Sat Nav will belt out ... RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT! You dutively turn right whilst muttering "this ain't right?", only to enter a village with street barely wide enough for an anorexic 2CV, let along a Rangie, then it'll get all bolshy again and command you to TURN LEFT. Low and behold, you're heading north again, and you guessed it, the darn thing will lead you back to the very same national you came off 20 minutes ago only 5 km up the road.

What the hell's all that about???

That is quite annoying! Mind you it is not much better than my navigation - give me a desert, fine, no problem....give me a city, wether it Paris, Brussels or Volvograd, I will end up going round in circles fr a few hours before getting out. volvograd has to be the worst one, I was very happy to get out of there, the industrial parts of that seemed quite odd at night.

When I purchased my first Sat Nav, my mate said to me, "they are great for finding your way out of towns, not so good for going in". He was right. They are brilliant for getting you back to the main route out of town - in other words to the next destination on your route.

A great example of what I was saying before about Sat Navs leading you astray is illustrated perfectly by these photos. I was driving along a main road in Wales with a caravan in tow (with my Garmin set on fastest route BTW, not shortest) when suddenly the thing said TURN RIGHT. Dope that I am, I turned without thinking. The lane immediately twisted downhill and got so narrow that it would have been impossible to reverse. What waited at the bottom ... a fast-flowing ford?!! Opps! Got out, had a look at the depth and the flow, realised I had no choice but to go for it, so nipped over the footbridge and took a photo first, then floored it.

Fortunately no problem as I assessed the Rangie would have made it and the 'van would follow anyway - floating or not - but just goes to show. If I was in a saloon car and the river was deeper and/or faster, I would have been up that well-known creek without a paddle (no pun intended).

And before you ask, no myself or 'er indoors didn't see a sign for a ford or a height limit, the latter of which I've only just spotted myself!

Technology eh ... don't you just love it?

I use moving map software when away on a trip. I don't have nor want one of those Navman type things that talk to you...that would annoy the living daylights out of me....but to drive along, and be able to see on a proper topographic map where you are is great. Like I said tho, you need paper map backup.

Moving map is great for crosscountry travel with no tracks.....you can follow your exact route back again so as not to get lost This is how I like to do it. The tracker is mostly for walking and day trips. The GPS & mapping software run thru a netbook, laptop or PDA can do everything a tracker can for a long trip

hehe....if it helps, I am a woman, which means before I even start I am a crap navigator

Firstly, hello to all this is my first post on what promise to be an excellent forum.

I was involved in the early research for GPS and have both a deep respect for a system which has changed global navigation as much as anything bar,perhaps, Harrison's chronometer, and a healthy disregard for what it might be telling you.

For me, the problems with most use of GPS are:
- firstly the user not using it with sufficient intelligence (man drives into lake, for heaven's sake !),
- secondly the system and out of date mapping (and often the system's ability to interpret the mapping, eg large vehicle narrow lane - after using a system for a few weeks ands on routes you don't know, if what it tells you feels wrong, it probably is, and it is certainly worth checking the planned route ahead)
- thirdly and very rarely the GPS satellite positioning itself (except in very built up towns where the signal is obscured, reflected and distorted by high buildings).

For my kit I have twin GPS mice (one is a backup), which talk via Bluetooth to a Toughbook CF-18 used as a tablet. The Toughbook has the optional Bluetooth interface and the disc upgraded to 500MB, with backup 500MB external hard drive. I did try out the Toughbook built-in GPS but could not get a decent signal inside a Defender.

For topographic map type navigation the PC runs Memory-map with OS maps at 1:250k, 1:50k or 1:25k or DGN for UK and French off-roading respectively and Ozi-Explorer for world-wide off-roading (last used in Ireland).

For on-road trip planning and route monitoring (Tomtom style), it runs PC Navigator European-wide. It also has Google Earth, though I have not really worked out how touse it off-line well.

If necessary I can run all these applications at the same time using GPS feeds from Franson's GPS Gate

For extra backup, I have Tomtom and Google Earth on an iPhone.

The PC also runs Microcat for parts identification and Rave for maintenance and electricals, as well as stuff for PC Backups, photo storage etc.

Finally, I have a vehicle Silva Compass, adjusted as best I can, and a Silva handheld hill-walking type compass, plus, of course paper maps and Rough Guides etc.

Finally my long expedition planning is for two vehicles each with the same setup for redundancy.

This overkill is down to my interest in all things navigation (long-term Royal Institute of Navigation member), my interest in most kinds of gadget, a need to know where I am relative to somewhere of interest/need, and finally extra caution because our expeditions include my two daughters, currently 2 and 4.

before settling on a Toughbook I did look into CarPC's - too much hassle and uncertain reliability, and had two Compaq TC1100 tablets which proved fragile)

Regards
Richard

300TDi Defender 90 CSW

I much prefer maps, and has already been stated the GPS systems have many traits and foibles, some are down to the system, others down to users.

Personally i prefer the OS maps which contain considerable information for those of us who use them properly, and can read and interpret the entire mapping system.

My opinion is that while GPS has a valid place in expedition and off road work, it cannot beat a good OS map, it can be used with a map, but is the one thing which may render OS maps obsolete if to many use GPS instead of maps.

rustyrhinos had a look at your site one day hope to goto Moroco,

We have memrory map on Road Angel for of roading, because it traks your roat so can go back and do it againe, alsohave Tom Tom for gettig around it towns ie postcode and voice, but always cary maps has well, years ago when a HGV driveing all around Europe had maybe 60-70 maps counties and citys towns, but alas came them on when stopped, so now building up a new list of maps, propbly best opion new roads. last time I drove in France as HGV only about 2-3 motaways now loads.

roamingman wrote:

rustyrhinos had a look at your site one day hope to goto Moroco,

I would strongly recommend Morocco

Sat Nav is for the guidance of the wise not for the obedience of fools




Brendan

I'm with the Assassin on this one. Whilst clearly GPS can be beneficial, OS and similar quality maps are far more rewarding. You'll never get the same sense of achievement by following instructions.

Unfortunately I know I'm already getting lazy by following Sweaty Betty's commands, the previous unit was Juicy Lucy, so much so that whereas in days gone by I could remember routes to friends houses, pubs, trading estates, now I have to look at 'favourites' as I can't even remember what county the darn place is in, let along the same route!

So go on ... what's your called?

years ago i was in the army in recce,did 4 years,,,so i was well into map reading and navigation ect ,,so for years i have always done navigation by map and compass plus i read the land which takes a while to master,,,i also take notice of where the sun is ,,weather which way the wind is blowing these sort of things,,,put them together and you get a map in your head,,,,,,i know it sounds odd but its true ok im not as good as sat nav,,but i think i could put you in the same river bed or field as a sat nav,,,,,,but wait,,,,,,,my misses bought me a tom tom i was a bit thrown by it,,,but once you have mastered programing it,,,its quite good gets you in and out of towns quite good,,but hey im still learning,,,, ,

and one thing you must remember me and probabley quite a few other people dont understand IT technolegy we werent brought up with it,,,,,,,,im still learning,,, ,

PS. i set the sat nav on the irish man setting,,,,now when i take a wronge turning he says,,,,,,,ya fecking idjit,,,

I do agree with the maps, but i tend to use sat nav most of the time.

|I got a Garmin Nuvi sat nav for me truck Uk & Europe and i got Garmin eTrex GPS Receiver for when i go off road, on foot or as a back up. Both a fue years old now and work well.
Also have compass both in truck and one that i can carry with map etc. A fue flares.

A friend of mine who works as a volintary mountain rescue has a CB radio in his LR 110 that has a buit in distress button, i recall him saying it was the same design as what you find on boats etc. Get in to serious trouble or injury just push the button, coast guard or other rescue can find you easily.



Jas

I love Sat Nav, I can navigate by paper map very comfortably, but why bother if you have sat nav. Especially when you're own in the car. With regards to going down a road, if you don't know the road what difference would it make if you looked at it on the map, I bet you'd still choose the same route, unless you used a 1:25,000 map so you could see more detail, but who does that on a 200 mile journey. I don't think Sat Nav is perfect my built in Land Rover one doesn't seem to know that the A34 is best road up to the midlands from the south coast, but as a human with a small amount of thought I think I am capable of looking at the route the Sat Nav has choosen and tell it to use the A34 and not the M25.

When travelling further afield I take a tomtom as well as my built in Sat Nav and I also have a GPS on my carputer should I need it.

Confession - I've not had a paper road map in the car since 2001! I would if I was going to travel out of Europe though.

Tuggy has hit the nail on the head, reading terrain, with an OS map you can read the terrain and as it contains so much information you can usually find your location even when you are totally lost.

With the terrain information on the map you can see altitudes, this shows where hills are and from this alone you can work out a rough approximation, rivers, streams, footpaths, field boundaries, remote properties, forests and woods, old workings for industrial processes, farms, the list is endless. All it needs is a careful head and a logical mind and you cannot get lost with an OS map.

So why bother with a map when you have sat nav, simple, what happens when it goes wrong or cannot get a signal, there are still a large number of non coverage areas in the UK and Europe, and what if it breaks or develops a fault.

Assassin wrote:

Tuggy has hit the nail on the head, reading terrain, with an OS map you can read the terrain and as it contains so much information you can usually find your location even when you are totally lost.

With the terrain information on the map you can see altitudes, this shows where hills are and from this alone you can work out a rough approximation, rivers, streams, footpaths, field boundaries, remote properties, forests and woods, old workings for industrial processes, farms, the list is endless. All it needs is a careful head and a logical mind and you cannot get lost with an OS map.

So why bother with a map when you have sat nav, simple, what happens when it goes wrong or cannot get a signal, there are still a large number of non coverage areas in the UK and Europe, and what if it breaks or develops a fault.

exactly,,,but you explained it better than me,,,,,

If I'm travelling across Europe I use a Nuvi in the car just as I'm not bothered about much except getting to where I'm going. Otherwise I will use maps.
In Cairo where I live there was never any properly accurate street maps and those that did exist had permutations on road names. So when I first came here I used an old eTrex just to record a certain location so I could find it again.
I also use the eTrex for Geocaching.

When I worked for Etak ( a company making digital maps for route guidance in UK & US ) we had some of the first route guidance units in the UK, We called her "Kate". Sad I know!

Ian

Sat Nav's are for the GUIDANCE OF THE WISE





NOT FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FOOLS!




Engage brain and mk1 eyeballs

Brendan

Yeah and sat navs are pretty useless in the desert/mountains/etc of course!

they also can not tell you of road closeures etc