Morocco and Europe

We're planning a trip leaving end of February next year. So yes, it will be nice and cold!

Plan is to drive Pembroke to a ferry to France. Which is best for this? Always used Dover to Calais, but heard Portsmouth to Le Havre is a better option?

Then drive down through France and Spain as quickly as possible to Gibraltar, was thinking about 4 days for this?

Then ferry to Morocco

Back from Morocco along the coast of Spain, South of France, up through the Alps, Lake Constance, through Germany and home.

We've got about 6 weeks for the trip, possibly longer, but budget will be more of a restriction than time.

So a few(loads) questions...
Whats it like camping in Spain that time of year? Will it be easy to find open campsites? Wild camping?

The Morocco part is stil open to discussion, I've read Chris Scotts book cover to cover to plan routes etc. At the moment its myself and Helen in my 90. 2 friends in a defender and disco are hoping to come, but are not 100% sure yet because of work etc. But if they do come the route around Morocco will be more adventurous, if its just the two of us we'll be a bit more careful- basically because im worried about breaking something out in the middle of the back of beyond!

Has anyone had a major breakdown in Morocco? My car is well serviced and reliable, but its still an old Land Rover!
Is it best to just turn up at Algeciras and get on a ferry, or book in advance?

We both like the idea of planning as little as possible, just getting off the ferry in France and just go with the flow from there. Camping as cheap as possible, and if possible not to use campsites.




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Hiya Phil G,
Just a thought re shipping to Le Havre in February, your leaving yourself a truck load of driving through a closed France in feb as far as any camping may be concerned on route, and the weather is always poo in feb, hooking it through central Spain, likewise snow and cold.
Portsmouth Bilbao would cost more on the boat than Le Havre but heaps saved on fuel etc etc.

If you fancy Le Havre check out going via Toulouse Carcassonne Narbonne, (Camping La Nautique in Narbonne opens 15th Feb) run by Dutch family and can be expencive but., they take ACSI CARD, gets the price down a bunch.
If not sure what ACSI CARD is it's a discount camping card, just stick ACSI in Google, real easy to get it posted via Tontine St in Folkestone and it last a year.

This route puts you on the Spanish Med, use national roads free or motorways pay, From Roses Camping in the north of Spain to the Port theres a zillion campsites open for the winter most full of Brits Germans and Dutch wintering in Spain as we do. Wild camping on the coast if that suits.

Now that may seem a diffrenent way than the norm, (but if Le Havre) it opens up shipping from Almaria to Melilla costs around 160 euro at the port and saves fuel and time going all the way down to Algeciras but the biggie is the sunshine Med all the way down in feb.

there's even a Morocco motorway to the Atlantic coast if for some strange reason you would want the Atlantic in february or the freezing Atlas, for me the Algerian side of the Atlas offers everything but mostly the better Moroccon winter weather.

I was going to ship Almeria befor last weekend but stayed in Spain and shipping on wednesday instead, stay out about a month, will head for Merzouga then head west to the coast but staying south of Agadir, it's warmer.

Me and the Mrs are in a 110 and retired and dont like the cold ha ha.

Have a good trip
Rgds

Thought that sailings on the Portsmouth-Santander/Bilbao finish in November and don't start again until Spring? Could be wrong, haven't looked lately.

Just filling time this morning with a rubbish internet connection but did check Brittany Ferries winter crossings and all's ok.
p&O struggled with winter crossings.
The Bay of Biscay in winter must be a dangerous place with people falling off the ferry I've seen loads of people hanging over the side shouting for someone called Hughie !!!!
Peter

Thanks for that, we'll have to think about that for a route.

Looking at ferries, Portsmouth to Le Havre do an overnight ferry arriving at 8 am, leaving a full day driving to get as far South as possible and so less nights finding camping in France.

So is the better weather on the Algerian side of the Atlas mountains?

not much wild camping if any in Spain and you will find many of the Alpine passes closed due to snow. Campsites closed also in France/Italy at that time of year best of luck

A few people have told us that France closes for camping that time of year, but surely we wont be the only people wanting to sleep in a tent in France at the start of March....? Maybe we'll just have to stay in Morocco for longer!

My wife and I did a trip around France and the Spanish Pyrenees this last September. We found lots of open campsites along the Atlantic coast but by the time we were headed home in late September through the interior we found most were closing up and had to use small hotels instead. Certainly driving all day and then starting to look for a campsite late in the day would be risky outside of peak season. Better to call ahead in the morning until you find an open one and plan your day to get there before sunset.

Phil G wrote:

A few people have told us that France closes for camping that time of year, but surely we wont be the only people wanting to sleep in a tent in France at the start of March....? Maybe we'll just have to stay in Morocco for longer!

If after Morocco you want to drive up through the Alps as you say, you may have to wait a bit longer than expected. I snapped this photo near the Swiss/Italian border at the top of Stelvio Pass ... in June!

My co-driver Lee (if anyone recognises him, he was the Event Manager at the ADVENTURE OVERLAND show), was wearing a t-shirt, shorts ‘n’ sandals as in the morning down in the valley in Bormio it was sunny and warm, by about 14:00 at the summit it was so bad, one side of the mountain (shown in the last photo) heading east down to Silandro was closed.

Not saying it won't be great for you, but be aware that it really can change so quickly.

Tom , Sommelier has been closed in AUGUST some years .

Well, there is a permanent glacier there, but still exceptional at the height of summer.

People assume that it will be hot because it is August i tell them thats why they pay me to take them...i KNOW otherwise

Have to agree, can't beat a knowledgeable guide.

What is even more common nowadays to see 'adventurers' in a tricked up 4x4 they've simply thrown money at rushing off into the unknown armed with a bunch of maps and routes downloaded from the net, only to find themselves in the poo as it all goes horribly wrong.

Not good.

Not to hijack the thread...but I don't consider a trip to be an 'adventure' unless there are some hurdles and challenges to overcome. But where planning comes into it means you are ready to face those challenges. But I admit I certainly prefer challenges to occur in warm ,sunny places. As a Canadian, I have seen far too much snow, ice and freezing extremeties....

Having one's extremetiy frozen ain't good mate.

Couldn't agree more, hurdles and challenges are great and is a major part of what overland travel is all about, but 'getting it wrong' through stupidity or naivety because somebody has more money than sense is something totally different. In fact it can be downright dangerous when you're talking about driving with sheer drops all around. It's these type of people that need somone to hold their hand.

Phil, I hope you and Helen do have a great trip and some memorable adventures...and write about them for us. If you do end up going on your own, I would recommend renting a satphone for the trip. I was broke down in an old Landrover deep in the bush in western Tanzania and was there five days. Used the satphone to let everyone know I was okay each day and to get a friend to get me some parts and a mechanic and drive down to find me. I was well prepared with food, water, a case of beer and a hammock...so those five days are one of my favorite memories from my travels. So, be adventurous...just be prepared.

A couple of us are planning our own trip to Morocco next year so very keen to hear how your trip goes!

Thanks all for the replies.

More money than sense is certainly not the case here! Its probably a lack of both... haha

Theres a very good chance there will be 3 other Land Rovers with us now for the Moroccan part, but as said, its all depending on work schedules etc for the others

I'm well used to the cold - many camping trips sleeping on the ground in the snow, and kayaking rivers where the ice hurts just as much as the rocks! So while im sure we're not as experienced as a lot of people reading this, we have plenty of common sense when it comes to dealing with environmental conditions.

good for you but dont rely on google or downloads in the mountains ..get yourself to somewhere local and buy a good old fashioned map and get them to show you what is shut at that time of year.

Ferry is booked! Sailing the night of Thursday February 14th. (Can you think of a beter valentines present?)

Vehicles now going are my tdi 90, a tdi 110, a £600 Range Rover P38, and a Rangie Classic.

Hopefully then sail to Morrocco on the Monday.

Rough route is a triangle between Ceuta, Marrakech, Erg Chebbi and back to the ferry.

Can't wait!

£244.99 ... bargain! Range Rover P38 4.6 HSE Axles Coil Spring Conversion 1998 Warranty

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-P38-4-6-HSE-Axles-Coil-Spring-Conversion-1998-Warranty-/370701531508?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D121031026830%26ps%3D54

How did you guess that the P38 has air suspension problems?!?

We're now discussing carrying exta fuel. The other drivers say to carry jerry cans, however I am not sure how important they are in Morocco? My dad did an organised trip there a few years ago on a bike with a range of 200 miles and said he very rarely dropped below half a tank. What are your views? My 90 will do about 240 miles on a tank before I need to fill up. Not too keen on fuel inside incase we have an accident.

Phil G wrote:

How did you guess that the P38 has air suspension problems?!?

Because it's a P38!

Personally I would always carry at least one 20 lit jerrican, simply for peace of mind. It may happen you'll be served up some dodgy fuel along the way (intentional or otherwise) so you will be thankfull that you have some good stuff on board.

As for the potential danger of carrying fuel on board in the case of an accident, first and foremost if the accident is so bad that you would rip open a jerrican and ignite the derv, reckon you'd already be floating with the angels by the time the jerrican split! Jerricans are super strong anyway, and the fact you're not carrying petrol should be enough to put your mind at rest.

Just one thing though, if you own a old jerrican, it's worth investing in a new rubber seal for the cap. It's £1.75 well spent. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html;jsessionid=1166431DC9A5F97866A27386A90FB7F9?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=jerry+can+rubber+seal&_nkwusc=jerrican+rubber+seal&_rdc=1
I always carry two spares in my toolbox. The smell of diesel from a weeping jerrican is not to be recommended as you bounce across Morocco.

Thanks for that link, I think new seals are a must,

We'll we've made it to the South of France. Can't stress enough just how brilliant Morocco is! The trip is going to be shorter than planned, mainly because the other members (who are now back in the UK) had to get back earlier than expected, so we only had 8 days in Morocco. Me and Helen thought about staying longer ourselves, but in the end it was decided by all that we will definitely be visiting again. Camping in Spain was no problem, but we found that there's not a lot to see there, so pretty much just made our way for France. Will write a full report when we're back,but for now we have our first problem. A UJ has started to fail in the front prop of the 90. I've taken It off and have driven a few hundred miles in two wheel drive, but don't fancy going the rest of the way like this. So, does anyone have any experience ofsomewhere to repair, or to buy a replacement and I'll repair myself, in the South of France? Currently in Avignon, and kicking myself for not bringing a replacement.

Hello Phil - glad it went in Morocco. As you say, we'll hear about it in due course.

As for your prop problem, where you are located is not too bad at all. Seems to me you have two good choices:-

Choice 1: There is an official Land Rover dealer in Avignon (located northeast of the city) where you could buy a CJ and fit it yourself … or have them fit it. Can’t be that expensive can it? Mmmm, maybe not!

Land Rover Jaguar Avignon
Zi De Fontvert
F-84130 Le Pontet
Avignon
France
TEL: 04 90 03 65 00
www.sva-avignon.fr

Choice 2: Approx. 15 miles north of Avignon is a small, independent 4x4 garage called Franck 4x4. They work on all 4x4’s including Land Rovers. Would they have a CJ for a 90 in stock? Possibly, but if you bought a CJ at the LR dealership in Avignon, you could always have it fitted at Franck 4x4.

Franck 4x4
1258 Avenue Marchés
84200 Carpentras
France
TEL: +33 4 90 67 24 31
www.franck4x4.com

GOOD LUCK!