The Indoctrination Of Man (Woman in this case)

Its been an interesting day today as i agreed to give a talk to a community group about 4X4's.

Arriving at the venue, i found the car park was full, but one space had been reserved for me and had a name plate with my name on it, i was expecting about 30 pensioners, but when i met the chairwoman she informed me that nearly 300 people were there, and a number were children as the local school was having an inset day, so keep it clean. As i unloaded my projector, screen, and laptop from my vehicle, a Mercedes came screaming into the car park and a bombastic woman got out complaining of the lack of parking spaces, i bit my tongue. As we entered the building i was warned this woman was anti-4X4 and could be trouble if she got with some of her cronies, so i was on my guard a little; the projector and screen were set up and the laptop was connected to it, then we ran some basic checks.

As i began, i explained what a 4X4 was, and the differing types; the cars with four wheel drive for performance such as Bentley, many Ferrari models, and the Scooby's and the Mitsu Evo's, then we moved onto the basic vehicles from Skoda, Volkswagen, Jaguar, and many more who used a standard vehicle and added four wheel drive to a standard vehicle for more traction, while retaining the originality of the vehicle. From here we moved onto soft roaders and how they worked, and then onto traditional 4X4's with their massive off road capabilities.

From here we moved onto the differences and how they could or would be used, the benefits and pitfalls of each different types, and how they could be beneficial to certain people, but not to others.

As we moved on we looked at the different types of 4X4 and what people used them for, we looked at their high internal space for carrying larger equipment such as cycles, mountain climbing equipment, hand gliders, and all manner of things people carried for their leisure purposes and hobbies, we then looked at towing and the much higher towing weights of a 4X4 over a traditional saloon. We looked at how people could tow caravans, boats and the benefits of four wheel drive on a wet slipway, and use them for community events for towing trailers with multiple canoes as one of my neighbours does in his capacity as an events organiser for a local community group. During these discussions many pictures were shown to the group from my laptop and they were all engrossed in the capabilities and flexibility of owning a 4X4.

From here we moved to looking at the different uses of 4X4's for leisure activities and how they could benefit many people in their hobbies, we looked at green laning and what it entails, the benefits of a 4X4 to elderly and disabled people who cannot now get to such places due to their age or disability, and the many groups such as DORA who take regular trips onto green lanes purely for disabled people. We looked at expedition vehicles and how they could take you away from the tourist destinations around the world so you could see the real country and not just places full of bars and cafes, and the fact you could do all this while living in your 4X4 expedition vehicle for a couple of days or a couple of weeks. We looked at the local clubs for single marques, or open clubs who accept any marque and how they often do charity events to raise money for good causes with their 4X4's.
We moved onto motorsport using 4X4's and looked at what different people around the world do, from speed events such as the Paris-Dakar event to local speed events, and then the various events where skill and driving ability is the primary concern, and not speed, we looked at a great many and all with the slideshow i had prepared.

Up until now i had been speaking for around 2 hours, and the room was silent as everyone was engrossed in what i was saying, especially the teenagers from the local school, and everyone loved many of the photos, particularly the ones taken when we were green laning of various rare species of plants and animals rarely seen by most people; so we broke for dinner. Dinner was a full roast dinner, beef, yorkshires, roasties done in goose fat, and veg, and there was plenty of it.

After a fine dinner we resumed our discussion about 4X4's and it was question and answer time, and the children were really up for this stage and asked some really poigniant questions about 4X4's in general, and everyone became engrossed in the question and answer session, many good questions were asked and answered honestly, all was well at this stage.

Suddenly a question came from this woman i had seen earlier moaning about no car parking spaces being available in the car park, it was how i responded to the allegation that 4X4's created 4' ruts on green lanes, and it was said in a totally inappropriate tone of voice; my response was that i didn't respond to things that were blatent lies. She persisted, she claimed they were not lies as she had heard about them, i asked her to moderate her tone as it was inappropriate for a discussion for a community group, she accused me of being evasive, the fun began. One of the committee members whispered she was a solicitor and thought every community event was her courtroom, i just smiled. many others in the room said they had heard of this and was it true, i explained that an average 4X4 has a ground clearance of about 8", so if it was in any ruts deeper than 8" its wheels would be in the air, so if it can't create ruts deeper than its ground clearance it can't create 4' deep ruts. Most agreed this was clearly a lie.
Question two came from this woman, how do you respond to the allegation that 4X4's kill people; my response was to ask her what she was playing at as she had asked two questions which gave me the impression i was being cross examined in a court room when i had come to give a talk on 4X4's, she repeated the question but in a better tone and in a rephased form. I replied that the answer to her question was yes, 4X4's killed people just as any other vehicles kill people, but made the point that accidents involving fatalities involving 4X4's are much lower than most othe forms of transport, she refuted this. At this point i asked her to rpovide us all with some evidence, she could not, so i logged onto the Governments own statistics and sure enough you were more likely to be killed in an accident involving superminis, small family saloons, small commercial vehicles (vans), and lorries than you were by a 4X4, i made the point clearly that i had proven my statement and she hadn't, and using official accident reports from the Government.
At this point we went into how different vehicles killed people and i showed footage of many different classes of vehicles in accidents with crash test dummies, which i had on my computer. It clearly showed that official testing had proven you were safer as a pedestrian being hit by a 4X4 than you were than by most other vehicles, this shocked the room and many admitted they were under the impression that was not the case, and had to concede. It clearly showed that if you were hit by the front of a modern car at 30MPH you would be inverted and hit your head with such force it would kill you, but being hit with a 4x4 with its bluff front would throw you forwards, and not invert you in the air. Being hit at 40 MPH with a 4X4 would most likely break your leg/s and you would have a lot of bruising, but not much more; basically you would be alive. This caused many questions to be asked, and the room was alive with genuine questions about accidents and 4X4's and how many people felt they had been lied to about their safety, and they all admitted that not they had seen actual Government tests that it was lies from the anti-4X4 brigade.

After the surprise and shock of the room had subsided this woman claimed 4X4's damage the environment as they were massive polluters, i asked if this was a question or a statement, she said it was a statement and how did i respond, my response was simple, it was another pack of proven lies. She asked if i could prove they were lies, i replied yes, then asked her if she could prove they were the truth, she began wittering on about a report she had read, i searched for this on the internet and found it, and also the fact it was discredited by many experts as no research had been done at all, and it was on the screen for the room to see. From here i went onto the only report which has been done into total vehicle emissions which covered the supply chain, manufacturing, in service life, and vehicle disposal, basically the entire emissions of a vehicle from cradle to grave. I asked her to read the top 10 most environmentally friendly vehicles, and highlight to the room were 4X4's, and where the alleged low emissions hybrids and electric cars were, she refused, but the entire room could see it for themselves, and the worlds most environmentally vehicle was a 4X4.

At this point i asked her if she belonged to any anti 4X4 groups, or the Ramblers Association, she refused to answer; i played her game and asked her how she responded to the allegation that she was a hypocrite and a bigot, she looked shocked and the room was in uproar with laughter. I merely pointed out that my Shogun was a large 4X4, but she had arrived in a Mercedes coupe with a 5 litre V8 engine and pulled the emissions for both vehicles up on my laptop, i pointed out her vehicle emitted around one third more exhaust emissions than my 4X4, and her vehicle was only a two seater, and mine was a lower polluter than hers and carried seven people. She stormed out and the room was again in uproar with cheers as she left, several people claimed she was a member of the Ramblers Association and a number of environmental groups, i replied, what with a car like that, then she calls 4X4's, its hypocracy on a plate for all to see.

The rest of the time was spent with the group discussing all aspects of 4X4's and other vehicles, and when we finished i got a standing ovation from the room.

The conclusion of the day to me was simple, you can lie, you can distort and manipulate the truth, but ultimately the truth alwasy comes out.

Good man!

Loving your work !!

I think its indicative of many people today when they accept something they read as fact, particularly if it comes from someone calling themselves a professor or other such title.

Fortunately; if you present the facts and not an opinion and back up such facts people will be objective and form their own opinions and dismiss the lies and misinformation for what they are.

I was just about to turn in as I have to be up early in the morning, but before retiring I thought I'd have a quick butcher's at the new posts on the forum - of course this new topic was a lengthy one. Even drowsy as I was, the fact you'd started by saying ...

Its been an interesting day today as i agreed to give a talk to a community group about 4X4's.

Arriving at the venue, i found the car park was full, but one space had been reserved for me and had a name plate with my name on it, i was expecting about 30 pensioners, but when i met the chairwoman she informed me that nearly 300 people were there, and a number were children as the local school was having an inset day, so keep it clean. As i unloaded my projector, screen, and laptop from my vehicle, a Mercedes came screaming into the car park and a bombastic woman got out complaining of the lack of parking spaces, i bit my tongue. As we entered the building i was warned this woman was anti-4X4 and could be trouble if she got with some of her cronies, so i was on my guard a little; the projector and screen were set up and the laptop was connected to it, then we ran some basic checks.

I just had to read on to see the outcome. Now, I'm wide awake sure and sure glad I did finish reading your post. I have to tell you, it was fascinating ... nice one mate! Extremely well handled, shame it wasn't televised nationwide.

What a absolute hypocrite, driving a 5 litre V8 Merc as she reckoned you were in the wrong; incredible!



Good you should of mentioned the charitable group D.O.R.A. (Disabled Off Road Access). Don't know if you were aware as I may have mentioned it on the forum, but it was myself and another off-roading mate who established D.O.R.A. back in the mid-90's. Ran it for about 4 years then had to move on to other things - like making a living, had a mortgage then - so passed it over to GLASS (Greenlane Association). Proof positive that without 4x4 vehicles it would have been impossible to take disabled groups such as Phab (Physically Handicapped in the Able Bodied community) into the countryside via byways for picnics, scenic drives, etc.

Nice one on many levels. One for giving a quality informative talk to a local community, two for being well prepared and even during the talk having evidence for questions you did not know were going to arise and three for sticking it to the hypocritical woman. Wish i could have been there to see the smile wiped of her face!!

Not aware that you set up D.O.R.A. Tom, but many groups and individuals such as myself have regularly taken disabled people off roading, particularly when the other half herself is disabled, and cannot walk to many of the places we visit. It puts it into perspective when a part of someone's life is missing and many simply dismiss it because they're not disabled and don't understand what a large part of a persons freedoms this can be.

Had the feedback from the group today, of 289 people attending 227 people filled in the response forms and all 227 said it was a fascinating talk and presentation generally, they loved the aspects of travelling away from prescribed routes in tourist destinations and camping.sleeping in an expedition vehicle; and felt they had a fuller understanding of 4X4's, their benefits to society, particularly gas, electricity, and water company's, as well as emergency services and why they need them.

Many didn't realise coastguard services, RNLI, and the various mountain or cave rescue services were emergency services which people required, or that many groups just rallied together for the benefit of communities such as the various off road groups in last years bad weather who handed out hot drinks and food all paid for by themselves, and got to stranded people by using their 4X4's. Many did not realise Gordon Brown personally invited a number of 4X4 groups to No 10 for their involvement in rescuing stranded motorists during the recent floods and periods of high winds when they rescued many people and transported emergency service staff to places they couldn't get because of the weather conditions.
Environmental issues were a concern to many of the group, and to find out the real truth, backed up with evidence and actual testing in a number of cases, changed many peoples perceptions and allowed them to see the realities, and not a biased or prejudicial view spouted by people or groups with an agenda.

Of the 227 returned forms i was rated by all in the highest category of 10, i find this pleasing as it makes it worthwhile doing such events.

Although i was offered a fee, i declined this and told them to stick it back into their coffers.

As for hypocrites, i love em.

Excellent article and well done to you Unfortunately it takes one incident like I witnessed this morning to sway everybody back the other way. I live in a rural area in Scotland and on my way to work I generally drop my daughter off at school where she then crosses a busy road to get to her school. This morning after dropping her off I noticed that a Nissan Navarra was going far too quick down the st, at this point the lollipop man decided to make a point by just walking into the street and stopping the guy in the navarra who had to slam his brakes on, trouble is my daughter had started to cross the road because she at 11 trusts the lollopop man, so if the guy could not have stopped he would have ran into her. Nobody came to any harm but the potential was definately there, and there was already mumblings about 4x4's not the drivers, I was not happy with the guy in the navarra or the lollipop man, but all passed off safely, but if it had not you can be sure that the 4x4 would have got the main part of the blame when it was in my opinion human error by both parties.

Needless to say that as a driver of a 4x4 I feel you have to try and be on your best behaviour 110% of the time as people form an opinion on you just on the vehicle you use, rather than you as individual.

Anyway once again a wonderful article and well done.

PS how do I get in touch with D.O.R.A

Assassin wrote:

Had the feedback from the group today, of 289 people attending 227 people filled in the response forms and all 227 said it was a fascinating talk and presentation generally

That was one hellava response, normally folk just don't bother. Okay, probably the teachers were encouranging the kids to fill out the questionaires, but that's still a massive response! It doesn't surprise me in the least all 227 said they enjoyed the talk, sounds as if you had them in the palm of your hand ... with the moany woman's nuts in the other hand ... firmly grasped!!!

As I say mugwump, I passed on D.O.R.A. lock, stock and barrel to GLASS, so they are the folk to contact. Contact via www.glass-uk.org

It was an inset day Tom, most of the pupils were there with their parent/s.