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delica
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PostSubject: Water storage   Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:21 am

I am still not sure, how we will carry water. There is few options which I am considering:

1. Water tank underneath...my friend can make one
2. Plastic containers in the car
3. Something like this http://www.atvworld.com/agircultural(cycle)sprayers.htm can be used as shower as well or
http://www.agratech.co.uk/sprayers-and-nozzles/Matabi-8.39.48-Super-Agro-20Ltr-Backpack-Sprayer.html ..personaly I like this one, because you do not need 12V pupm
4.. http://www.facewest.co.uk/MSR-Dromedary.html
5. Combination of these mentioned above

Very important is how to keep it clean and it shoud be as simple solution as possible.

Any other ideas?
Thanks
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KarlB
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:44 pm

I use two stainless steel jerry cans for my main supply. You can see them here: http://www.bushranger.com.au/press_release/jerry_cans_2.jpg Both drums are 20 litres and I have the 'tradional' shape rather the the squat.

Cheers
KarlB



Last edited by KarlB on Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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4x4overlander
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:34 pm

Dependent on vehicle underslung and wing water tanks are commercially available.

Underslung tanks need to be a pumped system

Alternatives are footwell mounted stainless tank systems. These are now gravity fed saving on pumps.

Plastic tanks are available from people like Boab

Stainless steel jerry cans are available in the UK but are £££

Alternatives are the blue jerry can with a plastic liner. Top of my head £30-40

Plastic jerry cans include military Scepter anything up to £50 or the black NATO one at about £24. Both 20 litres.

For short trips there are many available from camping shops of various quality and prices. The cheap ones are not as robust as the military ones and are prone to cracking especially if dropped!

Water bladders, can be made up to various sizes/shapes at a cost. However the Swiss water bladders are good and hold 20 litres. Only draw back for bladders is possible abrasion problems. Advantage over jerry cans is packed size when empty. We sell both Nato water cans and Swiss bladders HERE

Showers, looks like you are going down an expensive route. Solar shower bags are available for less then £10. OK not a power shower but will rinse you off OK. Not made with food grade materials, so I would not use them for storing drinking water.


Cleaning all water containers? Milton solution (baby bottle cleaning fluid) and rinse with fresh water

You can save on water by using no water sanatizing gel and wiping plates etc with paper towels prior to washing.

HTH

Brendan
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Tom Mc
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:36 am

Good reply Brendan, especially the tip - "wiping plates etc with paper towels prior to washing". So simple, so effective.

'er indoors even does this instead of plunging 'curry plates' straight into the kitchen washing-up bowl. Makes perfect sense, even more so when on the road.

As for showers, isn't that why they invented deodorant spray! Laughing Seriously though, folk shower/bath far too much in my opinion, it doesn't hurt to leave it a while and 'sensible' washing means you can still stay clean. Showers use a lot of water, a small bowl very little.

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Hillbilly Raider
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:07 am

Whats wrong with boiling a kettle and having a strip wash?
you know me Tom... K.I.S.S. every time thumbsup just another gismo /gadget to go wrong imo
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4x4overlander
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:10 am

Just to give some ideas on prices

Stainless steel water wing tank about £300

Stainless steel water under vehicle about £475

Stainless steel on board tanks ???

Stainless steel jerry cans 20l about £165

Steel water jerry can 20l £25-30

Swiss water bladder 20l £25 (Bladders can be made to any size/shape to order)

Nato black 20l water jerry can £24+

Scepter 20l water can up to £50

Camping shop water containers anything from a £5+

Solar showers about £10. No sun? Either have a cold shower or feel with warm water. Does not get much simpler then that!

5l water bottles. Cheap, reuseable but not robust. Not recommended for main water containers on long trips in arid areas. However I use them at the lockup

What do we use?

70litre stainless steel water tank in middle footwell and 20 litre Swiss water bladders

HTH


Brendan

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roamingman
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PostSubject: Water container   Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:12 am

Water container,
was thinking of one of these
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120608556083&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT,

To fit into camping trailor, or in footwel of D1
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Chris S
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:56 pm

Tom Mc wrote:


As for showers, isn't that why they invented deodorant spray! Laughing Seriously though, folk shower/bath far too much in my opinion, it doesn't hurt to leave it a while and 'sensible' washing means you can still stay clean. Showers use a lot of water, a small bowl very little.

I'd tend to agree - the sort of work I do is fairly minging at times and at the moment I'm spending quite a bit of time orking away but staying on site with very limited facilities and totally off grid - at the show I'd justy come back from a full week away with typical cumbrian weather and nobody said I smelled lol!

Back on topic though, we use water jerry cans and 2ltr lemonade bottles - the jerry can we use the most is a 10 litre on as SWMBO can handle it full and its a nice size to store. The 2ltr bottles are great too as they are easy to handle inside the vehicle, easy to refill at obscure places (you try filling up a jerrycan from some taps).

I did consider on board tanks, and even bought one, but decided that for us at this time it wasn't the best solution. There was a few reasons, ease of cleaning, re-filling (imagine how long it would take filling it usign a jug etc if you couldn't get anywhere near the tap or you'r hose pipe fittign didn't fit), what if it started leaking (ours was an inside tank and quite sizeable) - there was other bits too but I can't remember at this moment

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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:34 pm

There are several options, each have positives and negatives and the type of use, and quantity of water you require are significant factors.

Commercially underslung tanks are good for larger quantities of water, they sit between the chassis rails and keep the weight low down for improved vehicle stability. Stainless and plastic tanks are available, stainless is better but more expensive, plastic are good but can be prone to cracking in cold weather, or if the water in them freezes.
Both types will need protecting by underbody protection to minimise any accident damage through being hit from debris.

One new addition to the market is a large capacity internal tank, these are low profile plastic tanks which sit on the boot floor, and are bolted down through the boot floor, or through threaded inserts which can be welded to the floor; these keep the weight low, and can have 200-300Kg's of weight piled on top of them.
These come in a range of sizes to occupy most, if not all the boot floor, and have the advantage of protection from being inside the vehicle, and being able to carry the weight placed on them, and not taking up too much height.

Both these types of system carry large quantities of water, and they can come with water pumps and contents guages, but they need wiring in, the boot tanks have the advantage of being easily removed or reinstalled for a trip and gives the full boot floor capacity back to the vehicle when not on a trip.

If these types of tanks are used, i would recommend a secondary water carrying system, if you are in foreign climes and fill your tank with contaminated water you lose a lot of water, this is why a back up system is necessary.

Rigid and collapsible plastic containers are available, both will suffice, but they give the advantage of being portable which is a consideration if you camp and need small quantities of water for cooking or washing, you simply take on of the containers to where you need it, and they are easily carried. They also benefit if you need to fill your vehicles systems, radiators, windscreen washers, and headlight washers are the most obvious, you can carry the container to where it is needed.

As for cleaning, commercially available cleaning solutions are available for the caravan, motorhome, and marine markets are readily available, these are cheap and effective, and will suffice for most types of tank.

One important consideration for plastic tanks is to get rid of the plastic taste you get with new tanks, to remove this all you need to do is pour a couple of bottles of lemon or orange squash into the tank and top right to the top with clean water, leave for 24 hours and pump out using the pump to flush the pipework. Drain the tank and flush with water, this will remove the plasticky taste.

Do the same for plastic containers, mix dilute squash in the same manner as for drinking and fill the containers.
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:41 pm

Chris:

You can get commercially available pumps for filling your tanks from large containers, these normally use 20mm bore hose and quickly empty a 20 litre container into a fixed tank.

They can be mobile pumps or permanently installed pumps and save a lot of messing about filling larger tanks.

One tip i could give is what i do.

Find a scrap vehicle with a fuel flap and the filler neck behind it, drill out the spot welds and get the entire fuel filler metalwork and recessing plate. Weld the entire assembly to your vehicle using spot welds. Remove the plastic fuel filler assembly from the metalwork and install a food grade plastic filler nozzle and cap to it, you now have what looks like a second fuel filler which is lockable and secure.
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Vixen
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:26 pm

Never heard that orange or lemon squash trick before....thanks for that idea
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rustyrhinos
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:29 pm

Some of the replies seem very lengthy! Crikey!

I use 5 litre water bottles bought from Morrisons, or whoever has them cheap in the year. Probably buy about 7 of those, and then buy some 1.5 litre bottles to take out and use in the cab as and when required (they also get filled u by the 5 litre ones when they start to run out). I don't need a pump, a filtration system, or gauges - use my eyes and mouth for that, LOL! We prefer to keep things simple.

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tuggy
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:51 pm

hi delica,,,
i had a delica and had my kitchen in the back,,carried water in 5lt bottles,,,seemed to work ok but in my 101 camper i had a 75lt tank and pumped system,,,always swilled it out with clori tabs then rinsed with fresh water always keeps the tank clean

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delica
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:11 am

I have just bought this water can http://www.genuinearmysurplus.co.uk/products/detail/rowid=1685 and I am going to buy this water filter jerry can http://www.lifesaversystems.com/jerryunique.html
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gchinsr
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:16 am

I am with you Delica.I have 2 black Scepter MWC's, and will use the Life Saver Jerry as well. I am taking advantage of the extra internal storage, provided by the Hi Top roof, and will store the jerry cans in the 2 side locker, to free up a lot of space. For showers, I have bought a HozeLock Porta Shower,which you can add a bit of hot water to take a warm shower if needed. I am trying to avoid and complex systems, to have less to possibly go wrong while on the road.
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delica
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:43 am

Scepter just arrived Very Happy



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PostSubject: Water solutions   Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:08 pm

CAK tanks at Kenilworth have loads of ideas (www.caktanks.co.uk).
We have a 40 litre on board tank which is supplied by Reimo for our particular VW conversion but could fit many self build alternatives. It can be removed from the vehicle and rolled to a tap or other water source as it has a 3" wide filler. We use this for safe drinking water only and have a couple of 20 litre plastic jerry cans and two collapsible containers for either additional good water or that from 'doubtfu'l sources. We use UV Steripensr with rechargeable batteries for treating dodgy water or refills when out walking.
Rainwater is harvested from our roof to the jerry cans and we use a solar shower bag topped up with half a kettle or more often here in Oz cooled down with extra water. The 18l of solar heated water is transferred to a jerrycan and then we use a 12 v shower kit ( widely available in Oz and was available at Maplins in the UK) for very good showers - remove the spray head and the submersible pump can be used to transfer water between containers or lift it from a small awkward pool etc. - if away from the vehicle we use our jump start/power pack. Our tarp which usually acts as a sun awning can be clipped between the rear barn doors to make a shower cubicle if it is windy or a bit public
Cold wet weather and we revert to the kettle and a strip wash indoors!
Underlying our life on the road is 'KISS' and trying to find multiple uses for all the various bits of kit.

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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:02 pm

simonandsarah wrote:

Underlying our life on the road is 'KISS' and trying to find multiple uses for all the various bits of kit.
Couldn't agree more! Been there, done it, got far too many t-shirts in the process so ditch 3/4 of them!!! Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:20 pm

this may be a dumb question! but whats the difference between the scepter water can and the standard ex military can
apart from the price? and more importantly is it justified only asking as we need water storage for our next trip




cheers kevin
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:10 am

Tom Sheppard in Vehicle Dependent Expedition Guide says much of the problems of algae getting into water tanks and the impossibility of removing it. We threw this question around a good deal on LR4x4.com a while ago and I opted for a water storage setup comprising four black plastic NATO 20l jerry cans.

They fit behind the bulkhead of my Defender so helping to keep weight low and in the middle lashed in with ratchet straps to lifting eyes to keep them in place in an accident.

I also have a pump arrangement which allows the jerry cans to be emptied or filled by pump, and it has a NaturePure filter and tap in the system too.

As showering was mentioned, one of the jerry cans is in the process of being converted into a hot-ish water tank, heated by circulation of the water through a heat exchanger plumbed into the engine. It works in lash-up form, and I am now installing it all properly.

The difference between the sceptre and the NATO cans seems to be that the sceptre has a much bigger cap, potentially allowing the can to be scrubbed out by hand, which is impossiblke with the NATO ones. On the other hand the NATO ones have the small air cap and the main filling cap separate so either one can be used for pouring, allowing the slackness and size of the other to adjust the pouring rate.

My systems (except for the hot water part), has not yet been expedition-tried, though we we have done a week camping with it last year and will be doing a month this year. So I would not say it is proven.

Regards
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:03 am

Both the MOD, and Scepter can adjust the water flow with their vent caps, for smooth water streams. The Scepter is great, in that you can easily drop a electric pump into it. For ease of cleaning, the Scepter wins hands down, with it's extra large opening. I have a Hozelock Porta Shower,and will attempt to adapt the pump, and pick up tube, into the Scepter, to keep all the containers the same size. I think at the hardware store, I should be to able to create the adapter from various fittings, and with an extension for the water pick up, to have pressurized water at hand . After looking at heat exchangers, there are way too many connections that may potentially leak, for my liking. It is easy enough to heat some water after cooking to add into the jerry for a warm shower, instead of starting the vehicle every time, to have warm water. I just don't want, or need the complexity, accompanying weight gain, and potential system failure, when a simple solution will work fine. But that's just me.
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:22 pm

any body got any good reconmendations where i can buy a scepter water jerry can from,preferable a new or aleast un-issued one, not necessary taking about the cheapest. It seems the only official stockist for europe is in ireland???





cheers kevin
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:05 pm

TB Buti is an Italian watchmaker that produces some very nice looking timepieces karen-millen-colourblock-dress-p-351.htmlkaren millen coat on sale His artwork is often displayed regularly at major museums worldwide
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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:05 am

roamingman wrote:
Water container,
was thinking of one of these
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120608556083&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT,

To fit into camping trailor, or in footwel of D1
clinking teacups

Nice link! they are still available. I am tempted to buy one and Install it in my spare tyre holder in-between the chassis, as the tyre is now too big to fit. Ill add a pump, to allow both quick filling and easy use of the water. And Ill get a 6mm aluminium box made up to protect it when the going gets rough.

TJ

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PostSubject: Re: Water storage   Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:39 pm

I think the large fitted tank's are ok for motorhomes and caravans but for smaller vehicles I would always use 3 or 4 smaller type containers holding no more that 10 or 20 litres and 1 or 1.5 litre bottles as they cam be spread around the vehicle to help with weight distribution.

Bearing in mind a litre of water weighs 1 kilo a large tank holding over 50 kilo's is a large chunk of weight to concentrate in 1 spot.
The 1 or 1.5 litre bottles are always good for a drink on the move and will wedge in the door pocket of most vehicles.

On the filling side I have a lifesaver filtered pump which is a bit of a pain to use but you can extract and purify water from streams etc although it takes an age to fill a 1 litre bottle but as I don't venture of piste much bottled water is available at most garages supermarkets etc and I top up when buying fuel or food etc.
For showers I have 2 hi-gear black bag type showers which I leave on the roof during the day and shower early evening if I'm not on a campsite.

Works for me and there's not much that can go wrong with plastic bottles and bags except punctures I suppose.

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